tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5255701997510284524.comments2023-08-09T03:21:50.539-07:00The Three-Legged StoolUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5255701997510284524.post-81465186900956268832008-07-07T12:56:00.000-07:002008-07-07T12:56:00.000-07:00Wow. +Gene is making the best possible use of his...Wow. +Gene is making the best possible use of his unique (and unfortunate) position at Lambeth. His ongoing blog and video will be invaluable, both for information and for news balance. They will surely be quoted in at least some of the mainstream media coverage. +Gene makes this Lambeth exceptionally interesting, newsworthy, and memorable. We know he'll do this with kindness and grace. <BR/><BR/>Perhaps it's a blessing in disguise that he was left out. In every respect, he has turned out to be the right person for what God called him to do. The way it's unfolding feels downright Biblical, and we're lucky to be witnessing it. We must all keep him in our prayers, as he'll need them when facing what's on the other side.<BR/><BR/>Thank you, James, for collecting this information in one place.fshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03999534065792796382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5255701997510284524.post-91772836794836606102008-07-07T09:00:00.000-07:002008-07-07T09:00:00.000-07:00Reading about Ten Boom reminds me of last week's T...Reading about Ten Boom reminds me of last week's This I Believe segment on NPR. It was from "the girl in the picture" - the little Vietnamese girl covered in Napalm, running from her village. Like Ten Boom, she has come to forgive her tormentors, and forgiveness - loving your enemies - has become the central value of her life. <A HREF="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91964687" REL="nofollow">It is a very powerful listen</A>.Nathan Empsallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13270086735127577943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5255701997510284524.post-37863066558971319292008-07-07T07:36:00.000-07:002008-07-07T07:36:00.000-07:00Thanks for the date, Caminante. I couldn't remembe...Thanks for the date, Caminante. I couldn't remember if it was 2 or 4 and I was too lazy to look it up (it wasn't for a post, just a comment). I enjoyed your proper 9 sermon, by the way.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11622358803103789307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5255701997510284524.post-14346368242626545602008-07-07T07:14:00.000-07:002008-07-07T07:14:00.000-07:0029 July 1974, the Feast of Ss Mary and Martha, was...29 July 1974, the Feast of Ss Mary and Martha, was the first ordination of women to the priesthood, the Philadelphia Eleven. A few more were ordained in 1975. Then at General Convention in 1976, TEC changed the canons to allow for women's ordination such that as of 1 January 1977, any woman ordained to the priesthood was ordained per the canons of the church. It was the ill-advised House of Bishops' meeting at Port St Lucie in 1977 that gave opponents of WO the conscience clause but that was meant only for sitting bishops at the time and was never ratified by the Senior House, the House of Deputies. No matter what opponents to WO will say, the conscience clause was never made a canon or a resolution of GC and therefore should not have the power that opponents would want it to have. Do see Pam Darling's book, New Wine (Cowley 1994), 142-43.Caminantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16610142955176992982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5255701997510284524.post-45409251311244018472008-07-07T06:46:00.000-07:002008-07-07T06:46:00.000-07:00Something that has always amused me is the way tha...Something that has always amused me is the way that folks look at positions of power. True, some are more militant than others, some are more philosophical than practical, some are more strident than the quieter ones but we do these folks in purple a disservice when we think they are weak and do not belong in that position. Whether it is Orambi or Akinola or x-JDS or PB Jefferts Schori or ABC Williams they arrived at the position because of their power. Not a pretty thing to talk about but noentheless, true. Williams is seen as a weakneed bumbling fool in some circles, what a mistake. It is the same mistake we make when we think that of Jensen or any of the others. While we can rail against the abuse of the office make no mistake, they each have a great degree of power AND know how to use it.Frank Remkiewicz aka “Tree”https://www.blogger.com/profile/00501821790434895826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5255701997510284524.post-42552468609618312962008-07-07T01:20:00.000-07:002008-07-07T01:20:00.000-07:00Jensen won't worry about who he's hurt till the fl...Jensen won't worry about who he's hurt till the <I>flames are lickin' at his heels</I>.David G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15579600744831973105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5255701997510284524.post-81701659558597532322008-07-06T21:19:00.000-07:002008-07-06T21:19:00.000-07:00David, “This" started early the early 1970s when t...David, <BR/><BR/>“This" started early the early 1970s when the Life in the Spirit movement started sweeping through TEC. The good side of it was that spirituality was increased in members and there was a genuine desire to study the bible. However, there was no clear leadership regarding the way to study the bible. So, the Assembly of God and Baptist proselytizers moved in and the fundamentalist faction of TEC was born.<BR/><BR/>The leaders of the charismatic group were allowed free reign. That is how David Schofield moved from an insignificant vicar to a leader of the charismatic and fundamentalist movement and was therefore hand picked by the late +Rivera to be bishop of the Dio. San Joaquin.<BR/><BR/>Had TEC provided clear and scholarly bible study programmes and clear leadership and us back then, the current mess would not be quite what it is.<BR/><BR/>In 1972 (?), the first women were ordained in TEC and the charismatic/fundamentalist fringe joined by the misogynists went berserk and threatened to walk unless we returned to “bible basics.” That included only male priests although there is nothing in the bible (NT) excluding women from the priesthood.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11622358803103789307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5255701997510284524.post-42353975245225793542008-07-06T20:45:00.000-07:002008-07-06T20:45:00.000-07:00Didn't TEC go through this in the 70's, and CoE is...Didn't TEC go through this in the 70's, and CoE is just getting to it..Yikes!<BR/><BR/>I suppose that means that GLBT inclusion will take another 30 years?<BR/><BR/>I'll be dead by then.<BR/><BR/>Then of course it won't matter.David G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15579600744831973105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5255701997510284524.post-11007924045077692152008-07-06T13:16:00.000-07:002008-07-06T13:16:00.000-07:00Fr. David, you are absolutly correct about the "sw...Fr. David, you are absolutly correct about the "swimmers" being inegrated. I also have no problem with people swimming the Tiber or the Thames. What bothers me greatly is the secrecy of these talks and the apparent exculsuion of the ABC's participation in or knowledge of. It just seems underhanded in some way. <BR/><BR/>I'm honoured that you visited my wee blog! Please continue to express your opinions. And how did you find this place?Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11622358803103789307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5255701997510284524.post-84428221564183438102008-07-06T12:23:00.000-07:002008-07-06T12:23:00.000-07:00I personally see absolutely nothing wrong with swi...I personally see absolutely nothing wrong with swimming the Tiber... just yank those collars off, ditch the miter and dive in.<BR/><BR/>If they don't feel they belong with us, then Peace to them, and have a nice swim.<BR/><BR/>The confidentiality of the talks, however, does bother me.Canyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14737285360280766111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5255701997510284524.post-12678796887318811022008-07-06T11:51:00.000-07:002008-07-06T11:51:00.000-07:00I think it all comes down to power. They don't wa...I think it all comes down to power. They don't want to lose any, if they swim across into the larger pond of Catholicism. <BR/><BR/>Frankly, I think they should just get it over with. But I think the RC should make them adhere to the rules: no married clergy, and they start from scratch.<BR/><BR/>One of the things about the RC that annoy me (amongst any; as a former Catholic I am annoyed easily) is how they bend the rules. No divorce (unless you can afford to buy an annulment); No married priests (unless you were a priest in another church); and let's not even get started on the coverups.IThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09605163506396013904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5255701997510284524.post-50456868524606334322008-07-06T11:50:00.000-07:002008-07-06T11:50:00.000-07:00I do not think that any of them are ever received ...I do not think that any of them are ever received as priests. They are received as baptized Christians and re-ordained because, as per Apostolicae Curae, Anglican Orders are "absolutely null and utterly void."Brother Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333089314994730330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5255701997510284524.post-20204751886169204472008-07-06T11:17:00.000-07:002008-07-06T11:17:00.000-07:00Former Anglicans who crossed the Tiber after women...Former Anglicans who crossed the Tiber after women were ordained all seem integrated now into the RC Church and seem to be well respected.<BR/>I see no problem with a further influx and think such a move would be good for both ChurchesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5255701997510284524.post-84155675362903160532008-07-06T07:50:00.000-07:002008-07-06T07:50:00.000-07:00I hope they realize that they would not be receive...I hope they realize that they would not be received as bishops; the last bishop to "swim the Tiber" wasn't received as a bishop of the RCC (he keeps swimming back and forth between Rome and Canterbury). They may be received as priests, but I doubt they will remain bishops after the transfer.Padre Mickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07580459577853346369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5255701997510284524.post-54852513624316932662008-07-06T07:32:00.000-07:002008-07-06T07:32:00.000-07:00Guy Fawkes Day.Let me be the first to add that nob...Guy Fawkes Day.<BR/><BR/>Let me be the first to add that nobody in the RC, certainly nobody in thier right mind, would wnat these folks. First, if they do this trash to one church they will do it to another and why would the RC invite that? Second, what the RC "puts out" as gospel isn't necessarily what everyone believes (Hard to comprehend, but true). Next, the issues of gays and women and married priests are all percolating inside the RC chruch, no one would wnat those discussions upset by a bunch of whiney, crying babies that cannot get to meet in one city without srecwing that up, why would the RC want this group in thier midst. And maybe, the Benedict didn't know. Maximum deniability for the pope. <BR/>I am hopeful by the time the Lambeth Conference ends this GAFCON group can go peddle thier tripe elsewhere, just not here or any other liturgically based Christian church!Frank Remkiewicz aka “Tree”https://www.blogger.com/profile/00501821790434895826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5255701997510284524.post-68667133502742448822008-07-06T07:29:00.000-07:002008-07-06T07:29:00.000-07:00Hopefully, these Romans are not secretly planning ...Hopefully, these Romans are not secretly planning to blow up the Houses of Parliament.Brother Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333089314994730330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5255701997510284524.post-32416148491612597292008-07-05T21:52:00.000-07:002008-07-05T21:52:00.000-07:00Yes, Lynn, it will take a while to figure all thin...Yes, Lynn, it will take a while to figure all things out. The layout needs to be changed but I'm an HTLM idiot so I have to stick with the templates. I need lots of help and co posters!Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11622358803103789307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5255701997510284524.post-76321857569088084762008-07-05T21:37:00.000-07:002008-07-05T21:37:00.000-07:00James, you have been pulling together some great r...James, you have been pulling together some great recaps of recent news. Thank you, it take some work and a bit of passion to pull all of this together.<BR/><BR/>And I admit...I always like a good FOCA story. (GAFCON, FOCAs... these folks do need to hire some new spin docs.)Lynnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09748809418423591030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5255701997510284524.post-21765438525574174242008-07-05T10:50:00.001-07:002008-07-05T10:50:00.001-07:00They never cease to shock, do they? So "authorit...They never cease to shock, do they? So "authority" can be grabbed, just like that. If so, then maybe we can elect you the king of the universe and me the queen of the May!<BR/><BR/> For self-identified "orthodox," they sure are lawless. How could Rowan Williams not have seen this coming? <BR/><BR/> Thank you and God bless you, James, for creating this thoughtful blog.fshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03999534065792796382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5255701997510284524.post-35123246875812160292008-07-05T10:50:00.000-07:002008-07-05T10:50:00.000-07:00James, I find the Archbishop of Sydney's statement...James, I find the Archbishop of Sydney's statement that the Primates had been elected by their own people to be very interesting, as, from what I understand, none of the Primates of any of the provinces are elected by the laity; they are all elected by other bishops. And the Primates of the Global South provinces choose the bishops of their provinces; they aren't elected by laity and clergy, as far as I can tell (well, perhaps they do in the Southern Cone, but I also know that the Presiding Bishop there has an awful lot of control over nominations for bishop).<BR/><BR/>As far as the FOCAs disappointment that the ABC wasn't overjoyed by their "declaration" I think they are somewhat delusional; they haven't been paying attention to what is actually going on in the WWAC and believe their own spin that they are the majority. They actually believe that the rest of the Communion sees them as orthodox, but that simply isn't true. The churches of the Global Center (which continues to grow as the GAFCONites continue to make their loving demands) see the FOCAs as obstructionist and exclusionary.<BR/><BR/>It will be very interesting to see how things play out at Lambeth!Padre Mickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07580459577853346369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5255701997510284524.post-9582679182086283312008-07-05T01:42:00.000-07:002008-07-05T01:42:00.000-07:00James, thank you for this thoughtful post. Many's...James, thank you for this thoughtful post. Many's the time I have struggled with forgiveness, particularly without and exchange of sincere and mutual apologies.<BR/><BR/>We must remember that forgiving does not mean a loss of dignity; it is a gift.Lynnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09748809418423591030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5255701997510284524.post-451475529781451612008-07-04T22:57:00.000-07:002008-07-04T22:57:00.000-07:00Thanks so very much, James.Thanks so very much, James.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com